Thank you for your thoughts, but more importantly, thank you for your feelings. You always bring about a human and heartfelt perspective regardless of our political, religious… leanings. Your writing not only helps me better understand the political situation but asks me to look deeper, beyond my own ingrained thoughts, feelings and biases. There is no answer other than peace, and sadly that feels far away both in Israel, Palestine, here in the US….Let’s all work for peace in our hearts, homes, communities, nation and world. Talk soon. Veto-IEB
Thanks for sharing. I agree with the general message, but caution you (and all of us) to beware quoting famous people. In B-G's case, for all his prolific writing and public speeches, he never uttered these words himself. They are attributed to him by Nahum Goldmann, a long-time advocate of the two-state solution and founder of the World Jewish Congress, in his 1978 memoir "The Jewish Paradox" (p. 99), about a conversation they had privately in 1956. It was conveniently published after B-G's death, so we can't know if he really said it.
I think the following quote from B-G would suffice, taken from a letter he wrote to Moshe Shertok (later Sharett) in June 1937 in the midst of the Arab revolt: "Were I an Arab, an Arab politically, nationally minded ... I would rebel even more vigorously, bitterly, and desperately against the immigration that will one day turn Palestine and all its Arab residents over to Jewish rule." (Shabtai Teveth, "Ben-Gurion: The Burning Ground, p. 544). What do you think?
The bottom line is that Zionist leaders knew and anticipated Arab resistance, they just didn't know what it would look like. And the creeping annexation after 1967 eventually led to rebellion, which made sense to B-G in 1937 and should make sense to us all now.
In revisiting that book, I was also reminded of how brilliant Ben-Gurion was tactically compared to Netanyahu. He understood the importance of using power judiciously: "If attacked, we must not exceed the bounds of self-defense... I fear that those who today murdered our people in an ambush not only plotted to murder some Jews, but intended to provoke us, to push us into acting as the have, and turning the country red with blood. The Arabs stand to gain from such a development. They want the country to be in a state of perpetual pogrom." (p. 549). He also understood the war for public opinion: "Our strength is in defense ... and this strength will give us a political victory if England and the world know that we are defending ourselves rather than attacking." (p. 550)
This government would do well to heed B-G, but I have no confidence in it. Israel needs new leadership that will take it in a different direction.
Thanks Jonathan for this deeply personal and deeply honest perspective on this ongoing tragedy. Not sure if you follow Jonathan M Katz on Substack but I would recommend you do as you will find him to be a kindred spirit. Take care.
Really thoughtful and conscientious writing Jonathan. A model for those of us who have personal ties to the region. Honesty, accountability, and compassion for all. The quote is a great and an illustrative find. It speaks to the manner in which a cycle of violence starts and ends. Please take your time and continue to share your thinking…
Thank you for writing this. I really like the balance -- I've been thinking along these lines, but yours is the first essay I've seen with this approach. Well done and please do more.
Great post. This situation is so difficult and morally complicated that my biggest frustration is those from both sides pretending that there's simple good guys and bad guys here.
I don't know much about the history of the creation of Israel, certainly not as much as you do. However, I have been comparing what I do know of Zionist actions in Palestine since 1948, to the European theft of land, life and liberty of the native peoples in the Americas. Since the murder, intimidation and theft of land from Palestinian farmers continues to this day, (we can watch it on television) I can understand the helpless rage of Palestinians; the desire for retaliation. Just to be clear, I also know that one size doesn't fit all and it's not accurate to ascribe the same feelings to all.
It seems to me that most news received in this country, is geared to fostering sympathy for Israel. Even our presidents' comments about urging greater care to prevent the death of Palestinian civilians, is to me, gutless and weak, in view of the amount of military support the U.S. gives to Israel. Why not make it a fair fight and give military support to Palestine too? Or better yet, stop military aid to Israel.
I completely take your point of view about inflicting devastation on civilians for the actions of some political body. If Hamas were stronger militarily would it be acceptable for them to bomb the hell out of Israeli civilians in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv? History confirms that the stronger takes over the weaker, no matter how enlightened we now believe humans are as a species.
Sincerely,
Colleen Carlyle (neither Jewish or Palestinian nor a believer in anybody's god)
I am not going to pretend I can be objective. The facts speak for themselves. This must be solely Israel's affair.
By traditional standards one might say Israel has already won the war. If there was another full-scale attack on Israel we would come to their aid militarily. But sending them billions and billions in solidarity for the, to quote Nikki Haley "finish them" campaign (cleanup operation) is not in our country's best interest and certainly not the will of the people. The military-industrial complex, the Israel lobby and the warmongers at the New York Times, Washington Post and the Atlantic must finally be defeated. Now I will read your column.
The words written by Jonathan about the relationship of the Palestinians to Israel are not properly balanced and some of them are untrue.
Whilst certain Palestinians are bitterly opposed to the Israeli government, many more of them actually find the ways that Israelis live and share with these Palestinians to be very beneficial. Before the recent hostilities, the healthier communications between these two places resulted in many thousands of (otherwise unemployed) workers passing from Palestine to Israel and back every day. The social community patterns for public administrative health in Israel set standards which were supported and followed in Palestine too, with the result that compared to many less friendly Arab countries, which cared little for their citizens, there were relatively high standards of living in the occupied territories with only the political destructive doctrines of its leaders continuing to refuse to make peace. Those Muslims who were orthodox and who recognize the Bible as a part of their heritage too, could understand that they were not being wronged by the so called "Zionists", but in common with similar Christian forces, many were pleased to discover that at last the Jews were answering the instructions from God, to live in the place that He had provided for them.
Considering the small size of Israel compared to the rest of the Arab lands, it was not a very big sacrifice that they made. However, because the Jews chose to develop their country, unlike the Arabs who remained static in their ways until they saw what can be achieved, did any serious animosity develop although there were always a few revengeful radical Muslims who could not manage to leave the Jews alone.
The Jews have been pining for the chance to return to their own country for more than a thousand years and at last this call has been answered, but only after the genocide of half of them which finally brought this vital matter to international attention. Let these two nations and religions live together in peace and make sufficient a compromise and concession for growth, maturity and happiness together!
Thoughtful as always. As I digest the different perspectives, here is one presented by Yossi Klein Halevi, interviewed by Russ Roberts on his excellent EconTalk: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/econtalk/id135066958?i=1000637420439
Thank you for your thoughts, but more importantly, thank you for your feelings. You always bring about a human and heartfelt perspective regardless of our political, religious… leanings. Your writing not only helps me better understand the political situation but asks me to look deeper, beyond my own ingrained thoughts, feelings and biases. There is no answer other than peace, and sadly that feels far away both in Israel, Palestine, here in the US….Let’s all work for peace in our hearts, homes, communities, nation and world. Talk soon. Veto-IEB
Thanks for sharing. I agree with the general message, but caution you (and all of us) to beware quoting famous people. In B-G's case, for all his prolific writing and public speeches, he never uttered these words himself. They are attributed to him by Nahum Goldmann, a long-time advocate of the two-state solution and founder of the World Jewish Congress, in his 1978 memoir "The Jewish Paradox" (p. 99), about a conversation they had privately in 1956. It was conveniently published after B-G's death, so we can't know if he really said it.
I think the following quote from B-G would suffice, taken from a letter he wrote to Moshe Shertok (later Sharett) in June 1937 in the midst of the Arab revolt: "Were I an Arab, an Arab politically, nationally minded ... I would rebel even more vigorously, bitterly, and desperately against the immigration that will one day turn Palestine and all its Arab residents over to Jewish rule." (Shabtai Teveth, "Ben-Gurion: The Burning Ground, p. 544). What do you think?
The bottom line is that Zionist leaders knew and anticipated Arab resistance, they just didn't know what it would look like. And the creeping annexation after 1967 eventually led to rebellion, which made sense to B-G in 1937 and should make sense to us all now.
In revisiting that book, I was also reminded of how brilliant Ben-Gurion was tactically compared to Netanyahu. He understood the importance of using power judiciously: "If attacked, we must not exceed the bounds of self-defense... I fear that those who today murdered our people in an ambush not only plotted to murder some Jews, but intended to provoke us, to push us into acting as the have, and turning the country red with blood. The Arabs stand to gain from such a development. They want the country to be in a state of perpetual pogrom." (p. 549). He also understood the war for public opinion: "Our strength is in defense ... and this strength will give us a political victory if England and the world know that we are defending ourselves rather than attacking." (p. 550)
This government would do well to heed B-G, but I have no confidence in it. Israel needs new leadership that will take it in a different direction.
Thanks Jonathan for this deeply personal and deeply honest perspective on this ongoing tragedy. Not sure if you follow Jonathan M Katz on Substack but I would recommend you do as you will find him to be a kindred spirit. Take care.
Such an excellent, thoughtful examination. Wish there was more of this in the media.
Really thoughtful and conscientious writing Jonathan. A model for those of us who have personal ties to the region. Honesty, accountability, and compassion for all. The quote is a great and an illustrative find. It speaks to the manner in which a cycle of violence starts and ends. Please take your time and continue to share your thinking…
Thank you for writing this. I really like the balance -- I've been thinking along these lines, but yours is the first essay I've seen with this approach. Well done and please do more.
I regret to acknowledge how much I agree with you. It's a sad, sad time.
Great post. This situation is so difficult and morally complicated that my biggest frustration is those from both sides pretending that there's simple good guys and bad guys here.
Dear Johathan Weiler,
I don't know much about the history of the creation of Israel, certainly not as much as you do. However, I have been comparing what I do know of Zionist actions in Palestine since 1948, to the European theft of land, life and liberty of the native peoples in the Americas. Since the murder, intimidation and theft of land from Palestinian farmers continues to this day, (we can watch it on television) I can understand the helpless rage of Palestinians; the desire for retaliation. Just to be clear, I also know that one size doesn't fit all and it's not accurate to ascribe the same feelings to all.
It seems to me that most news received in this country, is geared to fostering sympathy for Israel. Even our presidents' comments about urging greater care to prevent the death of Palestinian civilians, is to me, gutless and weak, in view of the amount of military support the U.S. gives to Israel. Why not make it a fair fight and give military support to Palestine too? Or better yet, stop military aid to Israel.
I completely take your point of view about inflicting devastation on civilians for the actions of some political body. If Hamas were stronger militarily would it be acceptable for them to bomb the hell out of Israeli civilians in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv? History confirms that the stronger takes over the weaker, no matter how enlightened we now believe humans are as a species.
Sincerely,
Colleen Carlyle (neither Jewish or Palestinian nor a believer in anybody's god)
I am not going to pretend I can be objective. The facts speak for themselves. This must be solely Israel's affair.
By traditional standards one might say Israel has already won the war. If there was another full-scale attack on Israel we would come to their aid militarily. But sending them billions and billions in solidarity for the, to quote Nikki Haley "finish them" campaign (cleanup operation) is not in our country's best interest and certainly not the will of the people. The military-industrial complex, the Israel lobby and the warmongers at the New York Times, Washington Post and the Atlantic must finally be defeated. Now I will read your column.
The words written by Jonathan about the relationship of the Palestinians to Israel are not properly balanced and some of them are untrue.
Whilst certain Palestinians are bitterly opposed to the Israeli government, many more of them actually find the ways that Israelis live and share with these Palestinians to be very beneficial. Before the recent hostilities, the healthier communications between these two places resulted in many thousands of (otherwise unemployed) workers passing from Palestine to Israel and back every day. The social community patterns for public administrative health in Israel set standards which were supported and followed in Palestine too, with the result that compared to many less friendly Arab countries, which cared little for their citizens, there were relatively high standards of living in the occupied territories with only the political destructive doctrines of its leaders continuing to refuse to make peace. Those Muslims who were orthodox and who recognize the Bible as a part of their heritage too, could understand that they were not being wronged by the so called "Zionists", but in common with similar Christian forces, many were pleased to discover that at last the Jews were answering the instructions from God, to live in the place that He had provided for them.
Considering the small size of Israel compared to the rest of the Arab lands, it was not a very big sacrifice that they made. However, because the Jews chose to develop their country, unlike the Arabs who remained static in their ways until they saw what can be achieved, did any serious animosity develop although there were always a few revengeful radical Muslims who could not manage to leave the Jews alone.
The Jews have been pining for the chance to return to their own country for more than a thousand years and at last this call has been answered, but only after the genocide of half of them which finally brought this vital matter to international attention. Let these two nations and religions live together in peace and make sufficient a compromise and concession for growth, maturity and happiness together!